matociquala: (criminal minds fate)
[personal profile] matociquala

Except in certain limited cases of child rearing, incompetence, or danger to others, it is always an abusive act to interfere with the personal autonomy of another human being. We do not browbeat, threaten, cow, or manipulate our friends, family, and lovers into acting, believing, and talking as we wish; we accept that sometimes their opinions may differ from ours, and that they may have good reasons for their opinions, and that their reasons, autonomy, and intellectual integrity are as fundamental a human right as their bodily integrity.

This doesn't mean we can't argue with them, or even lose our tempers, or chose not to associate with them if they believe things we find odious and hurtful. It doesn't mean we can't set boundaries. It doesn't mean we can't point it out when we feel they're making mistakes.

It does mean that we respect their boundaries, and we don't assume we're better equipped to decide how they navigate their lives, relationships, politics, and identities than they are.

If I find myself policing my friends' behavior, perhaps the first question I should ask myself is, "What part of my own identity is so unexamined that I can't stand somebody else's choices making me question my own?"
This public service announcement has been brought to you by the letters W, T, and F.

Date: 2014-10-04 12:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/
I will admit I find opinion-policing hard to deal with and comprehend sometimes. I lived with emotional manipulation and various kinds of abuse as a child and teen and am both opposed to and deeply alarmed by them. I know I fail myself: I roll my eyes, I find myself saying 'oh, ffs' to myself, but I try to take a deep breath and think before commenting in these sorts of things. I accept not everyone can do this for all sorts of good reasons.
But at the same time, agree or die! tactics never strike me as constructive.

Date: 2014-10-04 03:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] matociquala.livejournal.com
Yes. I think I will start referring to it as "friendly fascism." :-P

Date: 2014-10-04 01:44 pm (UTC)
ursula: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ursula
In my experience, the likelihood of an airline losing my bag is in fact lower than the likelihood of me forgetting about an object in the overhead bin in a sleep-deprived haze.

Date: 2014-10-04 05:32 pm (UTC)
ursula: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ursula
I *swear* this is not the thread I meant to post this in!

Date: 2014-10-04 06:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] edschweppe.livejournal.com
"Sleep-deprived haze" explains much.

Date: 2014-10-06 01:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com
(This just happened to me yesterday though, so I sympathize...)

Date: 2014-10-04 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeeem.livejournal.com
...oh dear.

Date: 2014-10-04 03:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] matociquala.livejournal.com
I have so much to tell you about this fall. We should Get Coffee.

Date: 2014-10-04 10:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeeem.livejournal.com
Heck, we're gonna do that anyway, right?

Date: 2014-10-04 10:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] matociquala.livejournal.com
YES. Brewed from reader tears.

Date: 2014-10-05 02:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] coffeeem.livejournal.com
So salty and delicious.

Date: 2014-10-04 02:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gnomeuniverse.livejournal.com
Yup. Yup.


By the way, it's nice to have you back here.

Date: 2014-10-04 03:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] matociquala.livejournal.com
It's nice to be back. Hopefully it'll be a while before I get so damned busy again.

Date: 2014-10-04 03:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starcat-jewel.livejournal.com
I won't say this is something I needed to see right now, but it is a useful reminder. Someone on FB just hit what I call the "first strike"; if I see 2 more posts along the same lines, there will be a quiet defriending. Which makes me sad, but I won't put up with racist shit on my friendspage.

Date: 2014-10-04 09:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starcat-jewel.livejournal.com
Oy. And I just had a different person play the "pointing out institutionalized racism is the REAL racism" card on FB. And that's his second strike.

Date: 2014-10-06 02:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tsubaki-ny.livejournal.com
I'm taking a huge step back from FB -- as in completely disabling it -- for just this reason, more or less. The sheer universality is exhausting.
Edited Date: 2014-10-06 02:14 am (UTC)

Date: 2014-10-04 07:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arielstarshadow.livejournal.com
This couldn't be more timely, because my mother and I need to have a Conversation, and it's pretty much all wrapped up in exactly what you're talking about here.
(deleted comment)

Re: the great spell caster that help me

Date: 2014-10-05 08:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sprrwhwk.livejournal.com
Even though this is spam, there is something very SFnal about this.

Oh what a world...

Re: the great spell caster that help me

Date: 2014-10-05 02:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] matociquala.livejournal.com
And now, the surreality in creases, as I ban the spammer and the thingy vanishes....

Date: 2014-10-06 01:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] saltxxxburn.livejournal.com
Just wandering through, but this reminded me of a situation with my mother recently.

I'd had a pretty flustered morning, and my mother came over to see me. I was getting ready to go out or something, and she firstly, climbed onto my computer without my permission, changed my music and started to use my internet. Usually, This wouldn't have bothered me, but I was in a mood, so I wandered off to do my make up. I come out to find that she had helped herself to my good expensive coffee, without offering me one even. I got a little upset and told her that I would prefer it if she asked.

To which she came forth and commented that, no she shouldn't have to ask, that we didn't have to ask at her home, and she was finally comfortable enough to do this.

I carefully told her that despite it being okay in her home, I always had the respect to ask first, because it's how I believe things should be, in my opinion. And that this was my home, I wanted her to ask.

She threw the cup in the sink and stormed out crying, and no matter what I said she would argue that I was in the wrong. But she no longer makes herself coffee's, and instead asks for one or waits until I offer them up.


Sorry, your post just made me reflect on this, I agree with everything you say whole heartedly.

Date: 2014-10-06 01:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dubhain.livejournal.com
[I understand you were annoyed and posting regarding frend-drama on the Interwebz, but you've gotten me thinking.]

Generally speaking, yes. I might find a few, circumstantial, additions to your list. I might alter "Danger to others" to "Abuse of others," as abuse doesn't always produce a clear and present danger. If I walk down the street and see someone I don't know being bullied, even if they don't seem acutely in danger, I'm likely to tell the bully to "Leave them the hell alone!"

It's somewhat covered under choosing not to associate, but regardless of someone's personal, autonomous will, I reserve the right to tell anyone who I consider to be behaving unacceptably off my website, journal, property, or out of my home. And, if they refuse, to give them the bum's rush out to the curb.

All that said: Yes. What you've described was, when I was a child, taught to me as "civilized behavior." The word "Civilized" and many of the concepts which accompany it are out of fashion these days (and have nothing to do with snobbery -- I was taught the concept of being a civilized human being by my grandmother, who worked all day on a factory production line, build straight-six engines for Chevrolet.) Nonetheless, I try to remember my upbringing and treat people in as civilized a fashion as possible.

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